As an alternative of creating a simple comeback for his first challenge in over a decade, Rhymefest challenged himself — and aimed to transcend the boundaries of typical hip-hop. The Chicago native turned an iconic dialog between James Baldwin and Nikki Giovanni, two of America’s best writers and activists, right into a full-length musical composition that provides a poignant commentary on the state of the world at present.
James & Nikki: A Dialog grew to become a actuality by way of social media: the Grammy-winning rapper was scrolling at some point and located himself intrigued by clips of the 1971 dialog between Baldwin and Giovanni for this system Soul!. Of their dialogue, the creatives explored what it meant to be Black in America, from the lens of each a person and lady, throughout a time of political, social and racial upheaval.
They addressed points corresponding to morality, freedom and justice, whereas giving listeners an sincere have a look at how the US operated again then. As the way in which that individuals talk about these points and course of info has developed over the previous 53 years, Rhymefest felt compelled to discover a technique to make the dialog accessible to a modern-day viewers.
“How many individuals truly went to take a look at that interview to see what they had been actually speaking about,” Rhymefest tells Billboard. “Baldwin was channeling the heterosexual masculinity, and Nikki Giovanni was channeling the femininity of 1 in a relationship with a person like that. Once I noticed that clip, bro, I needed to dig deeper and see what was occurring.”
He continues, “I noticed trainer and pupil, man and lady, poets freestyling. I noticed anyone who lived in Paris and should not have understood what was occurring within the Seventies from the place he got here from. I noticed the longer term that was coming by way of within the Black Panther motion. It was simply so layered.”
Earlier than lengthy, Rhymefest found out that turning Baldwin and Giovanni’s dialog right into a musical challenge was the way in which to go, and re-imagined the dialogue as a lyrical change, infusing their phrases with new life and relevance in at present’s sociopolitical local weather. Rhymefest took numerous audio clips from the dialog and blended them along with his rhymes and an eclectic array of manufacturing.
Maybe most significantly, although, Rhymefest enlisted a number of under-the-radar feminine rappers — together with Helixx C. Armageddon, Teefa, Frayne Vibez, Brittney Carter, Rell Suma and Summary Mindstate — to channel Giovanni’s spirit, whereas additionally pushing him to stage up his raps. The result’s a sonic panorama that serves as a platform for timeless knowledge to resonate with a brand new technology.
Rhymefest spoke with Billboard about this particular challenge, together with its creation, getting Giovanni’s blessing, understanding at present’s racial and social local weather, and linking up with the Golden State Warriors leisure division to launch it.
After listening to James & Nikki: A Dialog, it feels such as you’re talking on to the Black neighborhood. What do you suppose is happening with our neighborhood that made you’re feeling this was the proper second to launch this challenge?
I feel what we name Black id has been hyperbolically made excessive by way of know-how, myths, and disinformation. I feel that when folks ask me if Dr. Umar is Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, I’m like, “You don’t perceive the organizing energy of Dr. King and Malcolm X. You trying on the Web.” Come on, bro. Like when individuals are not speaking about Tamika Mallory in a manner that understands that she is the at present’s model of Martin Luther King. She is at present’s model of Fannie Lou Hamer. I feel that the id of Black was given to us as a result of we weren’t Black, bro.
Baldwin speaks quite a bit about this, how white is an id that Europeans gave themselves. After they did that, they gave us Black id, and we’re attempting to struggle from beneath a system of injustice from a label that was given to us in injustice. I’m not caught up in Black, I’m caught up in values, bro.
This challenge is so necessary to you that you simply consult with it as extra than an album — as a composition. Why is that?
The rationale I do that’s once you go to the orchestra, the conductor isn’t saying, “Yo, take a look at my new joint. I’m dropping my new album.” They name their work compositions, and guess what, these compositions final for 100 years. I feel what we’ve completed with our tradition of hip-hop is we made it so low cost, so accessible. These ain’t songs or an album, bro. These are items and a composition. This challenge is talking to the Black neighborhood of understanding and the black neighborhood that is able to pivot right into a majority as an alternative of embracing the title of minority. That is greater than an album
I’m positive you met with Nikki Giovanni and let her know what you had been attempting to realize with this composition. What was that dialog like?
Dr. Giovanni heard the unique demo, which had completely different songs however the identical audio clips from their dialog, and she or he was amazed. She stated, “I solely want Jimmy was right here. Jimmy would love this.” I couldn’t consider she was calling James Baldwin [who died in 1987] Jimmy, and I used to be listening to it from her. For me, that was like Kanye West speaking to Stevie Surprise, or Mark Ronson speaking to Quincy Jones. Right here I’m at present doing my artwork, however I’m talking to the one that cleared the comb and laid the street. I used to be in a position to make this challenge and have the ability to thank her, however not solely thank her. This challenge is an instance of giving flowers.
Many take into account James Baldwin a forefather of hip-hop due to the way in which he used his phrases over completely different musical sounds, as he did along with his 1987 album A Lover’s Query. What does it imply so that you can be a rapper, listening to that he would’ve beloved this composition?
That boy was chilly, bro. There are issues right here on this challenge, as a result of we intertwined Jimmy and Nikki, the place I gotta return and take heed to what Jimmy is saying as a result of he was so prophetic. He says, “No tyrant in historical past might learn, however all of them burn the books.” You see what’s occurring in Florida, you see what’s occurring across the nation. James says issues like, “Child, it takes a very long time to be taught a little bit bit,” and that makes me take into consideration my life and the way lengthy it’s taken me to be taught a little bit bit, how lengthy it’s taken me into my forties to not be egocentric.
You labored with a number of feminine rappers on the album, who had been shelling out some heavy bars. Who gave you a run to your cash?
All of them [laughs]. There have been occasions the place I used to be caught like on the track “Triggered.” Like I obtained to a degree in a challenge the place I couldn’t consider nothing, I used to be simply at a block and I used to be caught, man. It needed to be completed. Helixx C. Armageddon got here with the primary verse and it was such a muse, and impressed me a lot, and rebooted the entire challenge. A whole lot of the songs I’d include the imaginative and prescient and the way in which these ladies simply rhymed, bro, it frightened me at occasions, and I’m speaking for actual. I ain’t had nothing out in many years, and I used to be like, yo, I can’t simply be sitting up on my challenge getting burned. In a manner, a whole lot of these ladies actually rebooted my rap profession and made me must go arduous like they did. We’re in a time proper now in hip-hop the place ladies are within the lead.
How does the continued dialogue that rappers of their 40s and 50s don’t have anything to rap about make you’re feeling?
It disappoints me after I hear artists say, “Man, once you get a sure age, you don’t be rapping no extra.” Then you could have the younger youngsters that cease all of that. It takes the knowledge of the elders and younger folks’s power, and we don’t preserve giving them these lived experiences by way of language. So we, because the modern-day prophets and ministers, it is a ministry, James & Nikki ain’t no album. It’s a part of a ministry. We gotta preserve rapping and preserve giving them our lived experiences by way of an academic language that they perceive.
You labored with the Golden State Warriors’ leisure division to launch James & Nikki: A Dialog. How did that come collectively?
You have a look at these file labels, and so they destroyed others. There’s no manner you could possibly put out among the unfavorable power a whole lot of these main file labels put out and the power not return in a manner that breaks your complete s–t up. Due to that I used to be by no means going to signal to a different firm once more. I used to be by no means gonna get with a file label, as a result of I used to be making music for remedy. I wasn’t placing something out, and other people had been mad at me. I had producers cease speaking to me as a result of they felt I used to be losing their time. I’ve a complete challenge with Black Thought that didn’t come out.
When my man David Kelly, head lawyer for the Golden State Warriors, stated, “Look, we’re going to start out an leisure firm, Rhymefest. We wish you. What’s up? What you bought?” I stated, “No, bro, I ain’t signing on no labels, man. You loopy.” He stated, “Let me ask you a query. What would success seem like for you when you put out a challenge?”
I’ve by no means been requested that query. Success has already been decided by many corporations from what number of streams you bought, how a lot product and merch did you promote, what number of numbers you bought. David Kelly requested me what success appears to be like prefer to me for a challenge. I stated it appears to be like like an affect was made. Can we make an affect locally? Can we get the NAACP Picture Award? Can our neighborhood obtain this and love us, and might we do one thing from our neighborhood that’s for all communities?” And he stated, “Oh, I like that imaginative and prescient of success.” That finally sealed the deal.
What do you finally need your listeners to remove from James & Nikki: A Dialog?
One of many largest compliments I obtained on this challenge was from a younger man who stated, “Hey, man, this challenge is the dialog I want my father would have had with me earlier than he died.” So what I would really like folks to remove is that this challenge is the duality of humanity. The ethical of the story is that life is transient, and luxuriate in it with James and Nikki within the background speaking about {our relationships}.
That is an expertise, and I encourage all people to take the journey with us. The individuals who James & Nikki is supposed for know who they’re, go get it and test it out. Jesus had a phrase when he stated, “I ain’t in search of the proper. I’m simply in search of the keen.” For all those that are keen to develop with this expertise, this gained’t be the final. That is the primary in a collection and I’m solely doing conceptual tasks proper now.
You additionally accomplished a fellowship on the College of Chicago for the autumn 2023 semester. What was that like?
Hip-hop is getting into one other state proper now. The one factor that we didn’t have in academia that we’re beginning to see now once you see folks like [Bun] B train humanities programs at Rice, or hip-hop programs being taught at MIT. We’re not battling with rhymes no extra. All of us come at it with mind and say, “You at MIT? I’m gonna go and get this political fellowship on the College in Chicago.” One of many issues I’m happy with is that it wasn’t similar to I’m educating hip hop, like, what I imply? I’m educating the intersectionality of politics and tradition, as a result of I ran for workplace. I’ll even be operating for the college board in Chicago this yr, so we’re doing it.
