There most likely aren’t many conversations going round mentioning Charlamagne Tha God with New York Jets star quarterback Aaron Rodgers in the identical sentence. One is a four-time NFL MVP and the opposite steers a nationally syndicated morning radio present.
Whereas Rodgers is slinging landing passes and Charlamagne crowns one other “Donkey of the Day” on The Breakfast Membership, hearken to each in dialog and it’s obvious there’s a sure pursuit of reality and seek for depth in frequent — as evidenced by Charlamagne Tha God’s new guide, Get Trustworthy or Die Mendacity.
Like Rodgers, the Breakfast Membership co-host can also be a newly-minted ayahuasca fanatic. The media mogul revealed to Billboard that he attended a religious retreat fueled by the favored plant-based psychedelic in February.
Charlamagne had three revelations on the retreat and one which performed a serious position in forming his third and newest guide was, “Cease mendacity to your self and cease volunteering these lies to others.”
The polarizing radio host explains in his personal phrases: “I simply wanna be essentially the most trustworthy model of myself always. No efficiency, no pandering, no saying what I feel folks wish to hear. Really serious about a scenario and expressing my true emotions for it.”
Some would possibly say that Charlamagne Tha God has made a profession out of doing simply that, whereas going locations with brutally trustworthy criticism and harsh questioning of topics that no different radio hosts could be prepared to the touch.
Charlamagne — born Lenard McKelvey — has clearly come a great distance since being a broke 32-year-old dwelling in his childhood bed room in rural Moncks Nook, South Carolina. Simply 14 years later, the award-winning radio host and psychological well being advocate has constructed a media empire that features his Black Impact Podcast Community, a publishing firm and rather more.
Charlamagne is at peace in dialog on the opposite aspect of a Zoom video name with Billboard, carried out from the cavernous workplace area inside his New Jersey mansion every week, after his Get Trustworthy or Die Attempting guide was launched.
“When you’ll be able to study to just accept each single factor that has occurred to you — and this was for my better good — that’s a strong place to me,” he gives.
Whereas he hasn’t put a quantity on his years left on radio, Charlamagne is assured he’ll be much more profitable a decade down the street — when he plans to take a step again to amplify voices and gifted creatives of the following technology by way of his corporations, whereas enjoying a extra behind-the-scenes position himself.
“I all the time say, ‘If I performed within the NBA, I’d lead the league in assists,’” he says. “My idols are folks like Clarence Avant.” (The late music govt he’s referring to had a Rolodex of worthwhile contacts thicker than a classic yellow telephone guide.)
Take a look at the remainder of our interview beneath, which finds Charlamagne relating his new guide, going deep on the Kendrick Lamar and Drake feud, in addition to on his future plans and rather more.
What was the inspiration on your third guide? Did you’ve got a second of readability like, ‘That is the place I’m going with this’?
Charlamagne Tha God: I’m writing on a regular basis. Simply my ideas journaling, or concepts for various issues. I write my “Donkey of the Day” each day. I’m all the time writing one thing. This guide is a bunch of my ideas that I’ve been writing through the years.
Once I began to take a look at all of issues I used to be writing, a whole lot of the themes I used to be writing to was actually simply us being actually ourselves. I don’t really feel like all of us are. I really feel like all of us lie, due to this [holds up iPhone]. We get on-line and we carry out. Everyone’s performing. Public figures, entertainers, everyone seems like they’ve an viewers. Once I had that revelation, it hit me once more — paying homage to 50 Cent and one of many best hip-hop albums of all-time, Get Wealthy or Die Tryin’. It was like Get Trustworthy or Die Mendacity.
The Why Small Discuss Sucks half is as a result of I really feel like we’re having too many small conversations. We make small issues massive. We put every thing on the identical scale and weigh every thing the identical. A lot so, that when massive points come throughout our desk, we don’t even know the right way to talk about them — if we speak about them in any respect.
Yeah, going off that first half, you’ve all the time mentioned you don’t wish to turn into a caricature of your self.
A hundred percent, man. That’s been an enormous problem of mine since day one. Not being a caricature of your self. You see it in different folks, and also you don’t need it to be you. I simply problem myself each day to indicate up as Lenard McKelvey. Understanding that Charlamagne Tha God isn’t one other individual, it’s simply the fly nickname that I created. At one level, I assumed Charlamagne Tha God was a complete different individual. I used to be on some Bruce Banner, Unimaginable Hulk s–t. Now it’s like, nah, that’s only a fly nickname I got here up with — as a result of sooner or later I knew I’d be promoting books, TV exhibits, and that might simply look good on a marquee.
At occasions, is that powerful for you? Do higher-ups ever step in and let you know wish to do?
I’ve by no means had higher-ups telling me what to do, ever. I don’t assume folks understand with The Breakfast Membership, I’ve been doing it for 14 years and I’ve by no means had a higher-up inform me what I can and can’t say, ever. I respect iHeart a lot, as a result of once you take a look at a number of the expertise iHeart has had — iHeart was an organization that had Rush Limbaugh. So if you happen to had Rush Limbaugh, God bless the useless, the way you gonna inform Charlamagne what to say?
However all of us gotta cope with the results of our actions. I do know I work for a company entity. So if I say one thing that any person doesn’t like, there’s gonna be some penalties and repercussions. Fortunately, I haven’t had any actually severe ones.
Take me again to once you’re 32, broke and dwelling in your childhood bed room with a daughter. What do you assume modified every thing for you? Was it a life-style change, or just getting the decision to return work in New York?
Nothing actually modified, it was simply the method. Even after I was again dwelling dwelling with my mother at 32, I imagine [my daughter] was two and my now-wife was dwelling together with her mother and father. It’s so humorous that you just convey that up now, as a result of my in-laws are right here at my home in Jersey for the week. To assume that 14 years in the past we again dwelling at dwelling, and now 14 years later, God bless.
I don’t assume something actually modified. I simply assume that was a part of the method and the best way issues had been purported to go. And I had accepted it. Once I was again dwelling dwelling in South Carolina, I used to be the kind of individual that would settle for my circumstances. It’s like, “OK, that is the place God need me to be proper now. I’m gonna take advantage of my scenario.” I had a very good plan. My good plan was like I’ma determine one thing out right here and work at a radio station right here and I’ll be positive. My good plan wasn’t God’s plan for me.
I wrestle with accepting that. I feel again to the pandemic after I primarily misplaced my job after working my method up.
I by no means get bitter, as a result of God has been too good to me, man. I’m 45, about to be 46 on June 29, and one factor God has constantly proven me is that every thing is okay — as a result of every thing is okay. That’s one other revelation. I had three revelations throughout my religious retreat. First evening was, every thing is okay as a result of every thing is okay. Second evening is, cease mendacity to your self and cease volunteering these lies to others. The third evening was, each single factor that has occurred in my life was for my better good. Each single factor.
Was this like an Aaron Rodgers darkness retreat?
It truly was, one hundred pc. If by darkness you imply ayahuasca, sure. Completely.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that. When was this and the way did you’re feeling popping out of it?
It’s one thing I’m nonetheless processing to be trustworthy with you. It was again in February. I’m simply attending to the purpose the place I’m snug speaking about it now. It’s not essentially one thing I’m gonna speak about [that much]. It’s extra so one thing I most likely will write about sooner or later. I’ll most likely wish to do the journey a bit of bit extra. We name it, “protecting the gold to your self.”
You talked about your father a bit all through the guide — the place is that relationship at at this time?
I like my dad. Me and my dad have all the time had a very good relationship. It was simply a type of issues [where] I didn’t have the connection I wished to have, as a result of I spotted he was elevating me out of worry and never love, and he was disciplining me for issues that he by no means taught me.
Rising older, round 2018, after he learn my second guide, Shook One, he had some actual revelations. My cousin had accomplished suicide. He used to do a whole lot of work with my father. Between studying with Shook One and my cousin finishing suicide, my dad actually referred to as me and was like, “Yo, I attempted to kill myself 40-plus years in the past. I been on 10 or 12 completely different medicines for my psychological well being all through my life, and I used to go see a psychiatrist two or 3 times every week.” They couldn’t work out what was flawed with him, so they simply began giving him a test. They name {that a} “loopy test” in South Carolina.
When he informed me that, it allowed me to offer him a whole lot of grace. He was a person simply making an attempt to determine issues out, similar to I’m a person nonetheless making an attempt to determine issues out. Rising up, as males, we don’t speak about our points with our father as a lot as girls do. If you hear daddy points, you assume girls. There’s a whole lot of males out right here coping with daddy points too.
I do really feel like hip-hop’s a younger man’s sport, in a method. We’re all the time wanting on the early to mid 20s because the tastemakers, so I’m like, “I gotta sustain with the tendencies.“
Identify your favourite hip-hop podcast.
The Joe Budden Podcast. I like The New York Instances‘ Popcast with Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli.
Joe’s over 40. Jon’s over 40. My level is: Hip-hop is a younger man’s sport, relying on what it’s that you just’re doing in hip-hop. There’s so many various issues to do in hip-hop. Hip-hop podcasting is a part of hip-hop now. Executives, A&Rs, producers. Quincy Jones, he’s not a hip-hop producer per se, however he didn’t make Thriller till he was 50 years outdated. To me, Jay-Z made his greatest physique of labor when he was effectively over 40 with 4:44. Similar factor with Kendrick [Lamar], I take a look at Mr. Morale & The Large Steppers. To me, that and 4:44 are gonna go down as the 2 most vital hip-hop albums of our time. He made that effectively into his 30s. Age actually in hip-hop is only a quantity.
What occurs is, folks actually don’t develop up. In the event you’re not afraid to develop up, if you happen to’re not afraid to evolve and speak about what’s occurring in your life proper now, yeah, hip-hop’s gonna be a younger man’s sport. Since you’re simply an outdated motherf–ker pretending to be younger. Be the outdated motherf–ker and create new lanes for your self. Any person like Joe [Budden] is the outdated man who nonetheless loves all issues hip-hop tradition. You bought the Gillie and Wallo’s. You bought the Cam and Ma$e’s. All of those brothers are over 40. Questlove’s podcast, he’s over 40. These guys are OGs within the sport. There’s no one I like listening to than individuals who actually have expertise.
Probably the most stunning factor I take into consideration is hip-hop shouldn’t be one-dimensional in any method, form or type. Hip-hop shouldn’t be permitting anybody to place themselves in a field. I’m a New York Instances Greatest Vendor. I received three books out. All my books pay homage to hip-hop. Why can’t hip-hop develop up? Why can’t hip-hop evolve? Why can’t I be a psychological well being advocate? Why can’t I convey politicians on my hip-hop morning present? Hip-hop has by no means been simply speaking concerning the streets. Hip-hop has additionally talked about issues of socially-redeeming worth.
What had been your takeaways from the Drake-Kendrick Lamar battle? I’m assuming you assume Kendrick gained, and the place Drake went flawed?
Kendrick hands-down [won]. Drake went flawed a whole lot of completely different locations. Kendrick got here with “Like That” and Drake began off sturdy with “Push Ups.” What I favored about “Push Ups” was he got here in any respect the blokes. Okay, Kendrick threw some direct photographs and laid the flag down. Drake was like, “All proper, let’s go. It’s time for battle.” Kendrick waited, and Drake got here with the AI report, which I assumed was intelligent. I didn’t have an issue with it in any method.
[Then] right here comes Kendrick with “Euphoria,” which — at first I used to be saying “Household Issues” is my favourite report out of the entire thing, and I nonetheless prefer it lots, however that “Euphoria” is one thing completely different. The extra I hearken to “Euphoria,” I’m like, “He actually broke him down psychologically. Kendrick hit him with a back-to-back with the timestamp report. Drake hit him with “Household Issues.” That’s when Kendrick got here with “Meet the Grahams.”
That was like an hour later too. I assumed that was good. He actually smothered “Household Issues.”
He gave “Household Issues” no time to breathe. I feel that’s the place Drake first went flawed. You gave us “Push Ups” the place you went at everyone. Kendrick shouldn’t be the sort of opponent you’ll be able to struggle and struggle 4 or 5 different folks. You gotta be very focused. He wasn’t focused with “Household Issues.” Kendrick got here proper again, “I’m in your head. That is about you.”
Then, the place I feel Drake misplaced is as a result of when “Not Like Us” hit — bop — but when I’m Drake, I’m like, “Now you in my world.” Drake ought to’ve got here with a bop. The place was the diss bop? You don’t come again with “The Coronary heart Half 6” after “Not Like Us.” No! You gotta be singing or one thing. Give us a Drake report that’s a diss that we may hearken to within the membership, that’s enjoying all around the radio. The way you let Kendrick beat you to a diss bop? The way you let Kendrick beat you to a No. 1 report? Breaking all of the streaming data — he beat you at your personal sport. That’s the place Drake went flawed. All Drake needed to do as an alternative of “The Coronary heart Half 6” was come out with a diss bop.
I agree, “The Coronary heart Half 6” was not it and he sounded defensive. I didn’t like the best way he went about it.
There was a stream I did with Akademiks proper after the timestamp report [“6:16 in L.A.”] and I mentioned, “No matter Drake does, he can’t sound defensive.” And he didn’t sound defensive on “Household Issues,” however he undoubtedly did on “The Coronary heart Half 6.”
Do you assume this was the very best battle we’ve seen? May we ever see it once more?
Undoubtedly greatest battle we’ve ever seen. You’ll see it once more, however it’ll be a complete completely different technology. Similar to the final battle we noticed like this was Jay-Z and Nas. That’s 20-plus years in the past. You will have the very best of the very best. I all the time say it’s a Incredible 4. It’s Drake, Cole, Future and Kendrick. That’s the Incredible 4 of the final 15 years, once you think about every thing. Gross sales, affect, affect, and every thing.
So to see these two conflict on the prime of their prime, it was incredible. You could possibly say what you need, each of them put out some superb music. None of them slacked a bit of bit. “The Coronary heart Half 6” was undoubtedly the weakest report out of all of them, however even on that, Drake’s rappin’ his a– off. That is by far the very best hip-hop battle I’ve ever witnessed.
The one factor is I want they didn’t go so low. Each of them took it there. I want they didn’t “Me Too” one another. He’s calling one a pedophile and the opposite’s calling one a wife-beater. It’s like, “Alright y’all, what’s up?”
What did you consider J. Cole stepping to the aspect after dropping “7 Minute Drill?”
I had no drawback with it. Once I heard J. Cole on that stage, Nyla Symone was working the Dreamville Pageant, and she or he texted me asking if I used to be watching — and I wasn’t on the time. I tuned in for Cole’s set, and 5 minutes earlier than he did that, I caught it. When he mentioned it, at first, the hip-hop fan in me was like, “Ahh man.” The person in me was like, “That man mentioned he couldn’t sleep. It messed together with his spirit.” That’s all I wanted to listen to. I ain’t have to listen to nothing else. You ain’t have to clarify nothing after you inform me it didn’t sit proper together with your spirit. I get it. My psychological and emotional well-being is extra vital than any rap beef.
Cole knew he was mendacity [on “7 Minute Drill”]. Cole ain’t imply none of what he mentioned about Kendrick, as a result of it’s not true. All Kendrick is is his catalog. Actually, that’s the one motive Kendrick Lamar is Kendrick Lamar is music. That’s why we love Kendrick Lamar. We don’t know him personally. He ain’t did no interviews or Instagram Lives or submit no memes — simply straight music. You’re mendacity, Cole, if you happen to say his catalog is wack. What are you, loopy?!
What did you consider Drake because the torchbearer of rap these final 10 years or so, carrying the style into the streaming period? I feel he’s carried himself effectively so far as his catalog and placing folks on and representing hip-hop. Kendrick referred to as him a colonizer and haters have come out of the woodwork to convey him down.
I’m an OG Drake hater. I used to be hating on Drake when it wasn’t a well-liked factor to do. I like his raps however I hate when he sings. The reality to the matter is Drake goes to be positive. Drake is among the best musical artists we’ve ever had. You’ll be able to name him the colonizer or speak about him ghostwriting, however you continue to can’t take away what he’s achieved. Honestly, typically I’m wondering concerning the ghostwriter factor –as a result of what if a few of our different favorites would’ve executed that again within the day. How for much longer would their runs have been? I bear in mind speaking to Scarface one time, and Face was like, “I’m all the time in search of the very best track.” That’s it. “I’m all the time in search of the very best report” — so if any person received an incredible report that is smart, why shouldn’t rap artists use these data?
I like that final verse on “Not Like Us” although. To be trustworthy, I don’t know if I agree or disagree with Kendrick on that. I actually haven’t taken the time to consider it. I similar to the bars. I like what he’s spitting. I feel there’s one thing about that that bothers Drake as a result of he’s been prolific for therefore lengthy, in his thoughts he is perhaps considering, “I’m simply giving all of those artists that I like a glance. I’m serving to them.” And in flip, they’re serving to one another. It’s not a system we haven’t seen. Jay-Z used to try this on a regular basis. You return and listen to Jay-Z on the Juvenile “Ha” report, you’d hear Jay-Z rapping over Houston screw music, you’d hear Jay-Z leaping on the “Go Loopy” remix with Jeezy, Jay-Z’s leaping on the “Hustlin” remix with Rick Ross. Jay did it the very best earlier than Drake. I feel Cardi B does a very good job of it too.
One other chapter you speak about hip-hop’s progress, however it’s coming at what value because it evolves. I don’t know if we’ll get to a spot the place the optimistic voices are amplified.
I feel it’s there. It’s a stability. You bought the Kendrick Lamars and Rapsodys. Even the folks we deem road — I like Kodak Black. In the event you truly hearken to Kodak Black, he’s speaking about issues with socially redeeming worth. Kodak Black ain’t simply mumble rap speaking about medication and killing. Kodak is definitely telling you what’s occurring out right here in society in an actual method. I used to say him and Kendrick had been Yin and Yang. They like the identical model of an artist from two completely different kinds. That’s why I liked when Kendrick used Kodak to relate Mr. Morale & the Large Steppers. I assumed it was superb.
I feel that we’re there now. Solely factor I’m saying is, I need us to always acknowledge our energy. Acknowledge the affect we have now. Continuously acknowledge the large platform that we have now. Malcolm X mentioned it the very best, “The one that controls the media controls the minds and the lots.” With that sort of energy comes nice duty. If you see me out right here speaking psychological well being advocacy or no matter it’s, simply understand it’s coming from a very good place. That’s how I discovered. On my desk proper right here, The Unapologetic Information to Black Psychological Well being. I’m always on that sort of time.
Do you remorse any of the clips that go viral from outdated Breakfast Membership interviews? Are there any you say and also you’re like, “Ahh s–t.”
Nope. That was the model of myself that I used to be in that second. I really feel like each model of myself served a goal. I wouldn’t be right here sitting right here with you as this model of myself if I didn’t undergo that. Plus, if I mentioned I remorse it –then what occurs? Does that imply I gotta give all the cash again?
I feel you reside and also you study. I prefer it. I need folks to take a look at Breakfast Membership during the last 14 years and when the documentary comes out, each time that might be within the subsequent couple years, I need folks to see the documentary and be like, “Man, all of them grew up. Oh my God! They grew up in actual methods.” As a result of what that does? It conjures up folks. It lets them know progress is feasible too. Keep in mind when Jay-Z mentioned, “Why would I’m going again after I’m doing higher than earlier than? If you need my outdated stuff, go purchase my outdated albums.” If you need the outdated stuff, there’s loads of the outdated content material on-line to lookup. Proper now, I’m about to be 46 and I’m liking the place I’m at in life.
Do you discover it stunning your voice has registered so strongly within the politics realm?
Do I discover it stunning? I can’t say it’s stunning [to] me. I can simply merely say that you just by no means know what journey life is gonna take you on and why. For me, In the event you go and take a look at my entire historical past as a radio character. I’m speaking about from South Carolina to being on a nationally-syndicated morning present like The Breakfast Membership, I’ve all the time spoke to politicians. Whether or not it was native politicians in South Carolina, politicians in Philadelphia, I all the time spoke to them. Even on The Breakfast Membership, this isn’t new. We’ve been speaking to politicians since 2014. Bakari Sellers was one of many first folks to return on when he was working in South Carolina. Him approaching opened the lane for therefore many democrats to return on. We had been popping out of the Obama years.
We’ve grown to be such a outstanding platform that lots of people who had been good — the Bernie Sanderses, Hilary Clintons — they’d folks on their campaigns telling them to go on The Breakfast Membership. Round that point, that’s when the Angela Ryes beginning approaching. One other factor that occurred is politics grew to become popular culture, due to Obama. Politics grew to become popular culture in such an actual method with social media that the intersectionality was certain to occur.
What does the media mogul Charlamagne Tha God pivot into and appear to be in 10 years?
I’ve discovered that my good plan isn’t all the time God’s plan for me. I do know in 10 years that I’m going to be much more profitable than I’m now. I’m going to be in additional of a place to serve in massive methods. I like after I see issues like Jeff Bezos’ ex-wife and all the cash she’s donating to those nice causes. I like that degree of philanthropy. In an effort to get to that degree, you’ve actually received to proceed to develop your empire. I’m in a very good area to try this, and assist different folks inform tales that truly matter.